Mercy and Manfred

[richard]

Interesting how he was the first choice - for the atoning souls in Purgatorio.

[dailyreflections]

Indeed, why do you think that is?

[Chris]

Maybe because of his brutal past? It illustrates God's Mercy (repentant thief on the Cross)

[richard]

Maybe because of his brutal past? It illustrates God's Mercy (repentant thief on the Cross)

Absolutely - picking one of "the worst", who repented very late - AND - was excommunicated by the Church. 

Despite all of this, through God's Mercy and forgiveness, Manfred is on the path to Purgation. But, it will take a very long time. 

So it's sort of a warning too; living in vice for very long has a price. Better to change and re-orient as soon as possible!

[Chris]

Maybe because of his brutal past? It illustrates God's Mercy (repentant thief on the Cross)

Absolutely - picking one of "the worst", who repented very late - AND - was excommunicated by the Church. 

Despite all of this, through God's Mercy and forgiveness, Manfred is on the path to Purgation. But, it will take a very long time. 

So it's sort of a warning too; living in vice for very long has a price. Better to change and re-orient as soon as possible!

That's a great point about excommunication, it's a reminder that the Church, although being the closest we can get to truth at any given point, is still not always 100% right admit everything... but probably always safer to be on the same side.

[richard]

That's a great point about excommunication, it's a reminder that the Church, although being the closest we can get to truth at any given point, is still not always 100% right admit everything... but probably always safer to be on the same side.

Exactly; practically there will be a "lag" in cases like this, but more importantly perhaps, is how the internal turning to God is the primary. The spiritual dynamic comes first. The Mercy of the Heavens is bigger than the Church approval.

[Chris]

I was thinking about this and realised that it requires putting "what you bind on Earth" in context.

[richard]

I was thinking about this and realised that it requires putting "what you bind on Earth" in context.

This put me deep down into Matthew 16:13-20.. could you elaborate the realisation, and how you see/interpret the quote? Curious.

[Chris]

Just what we were saying, that ultimately God's Mercy goes beyond even the degrees of the Church. On one hand, yes, quite obvious, but makes you think how to put that scripture in context. In the text, Jesus himself is saying that whatever the Church binds on Earth is bound in Heaven (at least that's how that it was always traditionally interpreted) and yet, in this case what was bound by the Church, was then released in Heaven.

[richard]

Just what we were saying, that ultimately God's Mercy goes beyond even the degrees of the Church. On one hand, yes, quite obvious, but makes you think how to put that scripture in context. In the text, Jesus himself is saying that whatever the Church binds on Earth is bound in Heaven (at least that's how that it was always traditionally interpreted) and yet, in this case what was bound by the Church, was then released in Heaven.

Yes. And perhaps also this: this passage in Matthew 16 seems to be about inner experience of the spiritual life, and discovering God within it.
Meaning;
Peter is a "template" for recognizing this internally in his spiritual life, and this exact mechanism becomes the "rock" of the church. As in the community of people who have experienced that same internal spiritual recognition. Not so much the institution of the Church, which often strays.
So the keys of the kingdom of heaven could be here: seeing how one's earthly life can grow or diminish your inner spiritual life and participation in the infinite spirit and Kingdom of God.
The "loosed and bound" are about alignment with transcendent spiritual realities. The Church cannot "decide" over these things - as Dante sort of suggests with Manfred being saved, despite his official excommunication.

Btw. the Greek is also fascinating here;
the bound/loosed words (δεδεμένον - "having been bound," λελυμένον - "having been loosed") are perfect passive participles, suggesting not "will become bound", but something that is already there.
A more precise English rendering could be:
"Whatever you might bind on earth will have already been bound in heaven, and whatever you might loose on earth will have already been loosed in heaven."

In the sense of confirming Dante's ideas; the spiritual realities are eternal and transcendent, and our "task"/gift is to discover and align with these.