Mercy and Manfred

[Chris]

I like your interpretation and it makes sense, yet the traditional reading, also as grounds for Sacrament of Confession still remains, and if it were to be wrong, that makes a big problem, because it's Catholicism 101, if the Church is wrong on that, then what else it is wrong on and is it even the True Religion?

I feel like I have to give the 2000 years of Tradition the benefit of the doubt on this one, and even if acknowledging your reading as probably correct, still believe that what the Church binds is bound, but, the case of Manfred, shows that this scripture needs to be put in some context. Something like the context of who fundamentally God is and His attributes.

[richard]

Indeed. It is a very complex issue; who decides how to interpret Scripture. There needs to be an authority on it. And even if the Church has gone through periods of straying in the past (e.g. Boniface VIII), they still hold the authority, absolutely. Not over the spiritual realities themselves, but our "best" understanding of it.

If one might see or have ideas of other kinds of spiritual wisdom in the stories, it will thus be a private "maybe". But also; if/when the institutional Church is aligned - everything fits as it should. The institution and the community of aligned and connected souls is one and the same thing. And this is also Dante's overall point: the corrupted Church of his time needed to be healed, not abandonded.

[Chris]

Indeed. It is a very complex issue; who decides how to interpret Scripture. There needs to be an authority on it. And even if the Church has gone through periods of straying in the past (e.g. Boniface VIII), they still hold the authority, absolutely. Not over the spiritual realities themselves, but our "best" understanding of it.

If one might see or have ideas of other kinds of spiritual wisdom in the stories, it will thus be a private "maybe". But also; if/when the institutional Church is aligned - everything fits as it should. The institution and the community of aligned and connected souls is one and the same thing. And this is also Dante's overall point: the corrupted Church of his time needed to be healed, not abandonded.

I wonder how would Dante view the situation now? My bet is that he would be more pleased with the Pope, but less with our ruling elites. As a fervent proponent of separation of Church and State, would he be happy with the outcome or would he change his mind in some areas?

[richard]

I wonder how would Dante view the situation now? My bet is that he would be more pleased with the Pope, but less with our ruling elites. As a fervent proponent of separation of Church and State, would he be happy with the outcome or would he change his mind in some areas?

Great question.. in terms of the overall structure creating the conditions and stability for spiritual development etc., he might have been rather displeased perhaps.
In terms of Church/Popes.. I know way too little, but I think e.g. Benedict XVI was surprisingly aligned with the "Carro" idea; the dynamic unity of reason and faith, reason and spirit etc. 
He seems to have the "brain hemispheres" insights quite clear partly by instinct, perhaps.

[Chris]

I wonder how would Dante view the situation now? My bet is that he would be more pleased with the Pope, but less with our ruling elites. As a fervent proponent of separation of Church and State, would he be happy with the outcome or would he change his mind in some areas?

Great question.. in terms of the overall structure creating the conditions and stability for spiritual development etc., he might have been rather displeased perhaps.
In terms of Church/Popes.. I know way too little, but I think e.g. Benedict XVI was surprisingly aligned with the "Carro" idea; the dynamic unity of reason and faith, reason and spirit etc. 
He seems to have the "brain hemispheres" insights quite clear partly by instinct, perhaps.

Agreed about spiritual development, in terms of the popes, i think we were blessed for 4 times in the row now, they all seem to know Dante well, especially Francis and B16.